The letter that ended Group B Rallying

"Racescort666" (Racescort666) 09/18/2014 at 17:51 • Filed to: Group B

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This was one of those sobering posts that comes across from my Facebook friends that have closer connections to the racing world than I do.

I'm assuming that everyone reading this post knows what Group B rallying is. If not, just search YouTube and you'll come across an era of madness and awesomeness that is unlikely to ever be rivaled in racing again. The downfall? Danger.

Racing is inherently dangerous, everyone should know that, but Group B is set apart from this because it ended up being so far beyond the normal level of danger for both the crews and the spectators.

The letter above stemmed from one of the most tragic incidents in rallying history, obviously, at Rally Portugal. In 1986, A Ford RS200 crashed into a group of spectators killing several and injuring many more. It was becoming clear that the sport was too dangerous and, among other changes, the Group B class was dropped from rallying.

The cars and the era will live on forever in our hearts but the price was too high and it came to an abrupt end.

For Sweden > Racescort666 09/18/2014 at 17:53

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Aren't the current crop of WRC / World Rallycross cars as fast as Group B?

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > Racescort666 09/18/2014 at 17:53

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It wasn't the cars that killed group b, it was the fans.

mcseanerson > Racescort666 09/18/2014 at 17:54

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It says specifically that the issue was not due to the type of car or the speed of it.

OPPOsaurus WRX > For Sweden 09/18/2014 at 18:00

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thats exactly what I was think about. whats the difference

interrogator-chaplain > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 09/18/2014 at 18:02

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They loved it to death. (BRB, going to hell.)

Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire > interrogator-chaplain 09/18/2014 at 18:04

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That's actually 100% true. They knew the dangers of what they were doing and kept pushing it until one tragic day, it bit back.

My citroen won't start > OPPOsaurus WRX 09/18/2014 at 18:10

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I don't think so, the S4's had up to 560hp and weighted 1,962 lb. WRC cars are nowhere near that.

Racescort666 > OPPOsaurus WRX 09/18/2014 at 18:13

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Crowd control and build quality are the biggest differences now. You are correct, most of the stage records that were set by the Group B cars have been broken. There have been a few drivers that have driven the modern cars that were competing in the Group B days and they usually comment that the Group B cars accelerated faster than the current ones but the current ones handle better.

It makes sense that the current cars would be overall faster but not accelerate like the GrB cars because of the power to weight ratio.

OPPOsaurus WRX > My citroen won't start 09/18/2014 at 18:21

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od you know what the weight and hp are of the two modern cars i posted?

My citroen won't start > OPPOsaurus WRX 09/18/2014 at 18:32

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The fiesta has 300hp and weights 2645 lb. and the Scoobie probably the same as there are FIA regulations

Racescort666 > OPPOsaurus WRX 09/18/2014 at 18:32

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Restricted to 300-350 hp and 2950 lbs if memory serves. Minimum weight could be more but peak horsepower is around 350 as limited by the inlet restrictor and most of the rev range is closer to 300.

Dusty Ventures > For Sweden 09/18/2014 at 19:00

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Yes and no. They're not as fast in a straight line, but with better suspension and handling they're faster through a rally stage than the group B cars were. They're also easier to drive, and thereby less dangerous. Not to mention things like better cages, racing fuel cells, and fire suppression systems.

Dusty Ventures > My citroen won't start 09/18/2014 at 19:08

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Rally America doesn't use FIA regulations, so the Subaru is a bit more powerful (rumored around 350) and a bit heavier 2,900 lbs

tromoly > Racescort666 09/18/2014 at 19:21

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The Portugal rally was one of the factors that ended Group B, however it was earlier in the year than the Tour de Corse, where Henri Toivonen was killed, which was the reason that the FIA froze development of Group B cars before banning them from the 1987 season. The rest of the 1986 season was ran to Group B, it was not banished mid-year.

So the image you shared does not show the document that killed Group B. However, you have posted a historic document that is important for the history of Group B.

Kanaric > Racescort666 09/18/2014 at 19:23

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Group B was getting over the top with deaths. I much prefer the era after it, I LOATHE the current era however. No homologation = no fun.

The era after group b (Group A) brought us a lot of affordable awesome road going versions of the rally cars. It was the best era for the fans and the sport as well as the car companies.

Sagar93 > For Sweden 09/19/2014 at 11:53

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Lol no

Do-Rif-To > Racescort666 09/19/2014 at 11:56

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Sounds like a crowd control failure to me. Can't say that though, victim blaming!

/s

Sweet Trav > Racescort666 09/19/2014 at 11:59

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There's a reason why they are called Killer B's

You had fordboy357 at "meat tornado" > Racescort666 09/19/2014 at 12:01

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Fuck yeah! RS200!

ComeOnMann > Racescort666 09/19/2014 at 12:03

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I've heard people would try to touch the cars as they drove past and pit crews would find fingers in panel gaps after races

heeltoehero > Racescort666 09/19/2014 at 12:04

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For those of you who don't want to squint like I did.

The reasons that all the undersigned drivers do not wish to continue with the Portugese (sic) Rally are as follows:

(1) As a mark of respect for the families of the dead people and for those injured.

(2) There is a very special situation here in Portugal: we feel it is impossible for us to guarantee the safety of the spectators.

(3) The accident on Stage I was caused by the driver having to try to avoid spectators that were in the road. It was not caused due to the type of car or the speed of it.

(4) We hope that our sport will ultimately benefit from this decision.

FKA-RacecaR > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 09/19/2014 at 12:08

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Like anything fun in life, the day you lose the fear is the day some thing bad happens.

Skater Dad > interrogator-chaplain 09/19/2014 at 12:08

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I'll see you there. This made my laugh pretty hard.

Eric Sean Delaney > OPPOsaurus WRX 09/19/2014 at 12:10

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Well that Lancia isn't Group B and that Audi is one of the earliest years of Group B.

There we go.

deprecated account > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 09/19/2014 at 12:10

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Very ironic seeing as the fans killed the cars/drivers, and the cars/drivers would sometimes inadvertently kill the fans.

Struts MacPherson > For Sweden 09/19/2014 at 12:10

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It's partly the cars, but also the courses they are driven on. Today's courses are tighter and more technical, and cater to the WRC cars. Group B courses allowed for drivers to really open up the cars, which had a much higher top end speed. Faster rally cars on a faster course = dead people.

Huell Howitzer > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 09/19/2014 at 12:13

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Yep. Line 3 seems to indicate that the drivers thought the cars were not to blame- it was not their intent to kill Group B.

sumfoo1 > Racescort666 09/19/2014 at 12:16

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WAS NOT CAUSED BY THE SPEED OR THE TYPE OF THE CAR BUT THE PEOPLE IN THE ROAD!

JayHova > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 09/19/2014 at 12:16

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Yes and No. While the accidents with the fans clearly played a significant role, the lack of safety features on the cars, which caused the death of Henri Toivonen and his codriver also played a major role.

irisfailsafe5000 > Racescort666 09/19/2014 at 12:18

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Modern rally cars are smaller (Ford Fiesta size, B type). Those were D /E size (Mercedes C -E) a bit smaller because of the time but you get the idea. Modern rally cars have approximately 300 hp the B type had over 800 hp. Basically they put Formula 1 engines on rally cars and that was group B. They had enormous turbo lag and as far as I understand most of them weren't AWD but RWD. You add all of these factors along with poor safety compared to today and you start to get an idea.

The-Ever-Socially-Apathetic TBAL > Racescort666 09/19/2014 at 12:23

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It could still be done today, but the trick would be to keep spectators far away from the track.

Kaufmania: Mark Webber's Stunt Double > For Sweden 09/19/2014 at 12:50

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but also safer.

ILovePickeldEggs > For Sweden 09/19/2014 at 12:54

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They are. They are also promote cleaner driving styles to be faster instead of massive amounts of power. Also, less people are jumping in front of cars which is nice.

Kaufmania: Mark Webber's Stunt Double > Racescort666 09/19/2014 at 12:55

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i know the connotations that come with saying thisthis but BRING BACK GROUP B

Chaparral2F > Racescort666 09/19/2014 at 13:00

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Group B was unsustainable. Huge amounts of money were being spent on cars that were basically F1 rally cars. Audi and Peugeot in particular had massive budgets for their rally cars. This same thing happened to Group C/GTP cars. But, for a moment in time, those of us who eat, live and sleep motorsports, got to live in Camelot. I still have every Group B rally race recorded, at least those that were on ESPN. Seeing an Audi Sport Quattro S1 or Peugeot 205 T16 as well as Ford RS200 was about as close to heaven as you will get.

Andy Sheehan, StreetsideStig > Racescort666 09/19/2014 at 13:01

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I know Walter Rohrl called them "too fast to race," but it's interesting that the drivers made a point to say that the cars weren't to blame.

WarShrike > interrogator-chaplain 09/19/2014 at 13:01

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RIP in Pieces.

KingOfRallyAmerica2K14 > OPPOsaurus WRX 09/19/2014 at 13:02

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The subaru is 500hp and weighs like 2900lbs I think.

KingOfRallyAmerica2K14 > Dusty Ventures 09/19/2014 at 13:02

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The rally america cars make 500 some HP

ILovePickeldEggs > Arch Duke Maxyenko, Shit Talk Extraordinaire 09/19/2014 at 13:06

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I disagree. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4sj9yT…

ILovePickeldEggs > Racescort666 09/19/2014 at 13:07

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http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Henri_Toi…

Martin Penwald > Racescort666 09/19/2014 at 13:07

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Dusty Ventures > KingOfRallyAmerica2K14 09/19/2014 at 13:12

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Without the intake restrictor perhaps, but with it the car's only around 350

EDIT: Or you could be thinking of the rallycross car, which is around 500.

Fred (FreddsterExprs) > For Sweden 09/19/2014 at 13:13

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Yes, even though they make half the horse power. WRC's current suspension, tire and differential technology is that advanced.

Dusty Ventures > irisfailsafe5000 09/19/2014 at 13:34

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On the contrary, today's WRC cars are almost the exact same size of the Group B cars, Group B cars were closer to 600 hp than 800, and almost all of them were AWD.

G/O Sucks > Racescort666 09/19/2014 at 13:39

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Group B was not ended by a letter, it was killed by idiot fans. There's no way around it — The mindless fools who crowded onto the track itself, lining obvious runoff areas and dying for their stupidity was what put Group B down.

Evan, Pope Of Jalopnik by Self-Appointment > Skater Dad 09/19/2014 at 14:00

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Keep a seat open for me at the table. Maybe order me a Three Floyds if you guy are having anything.

RallyWrench > JayHova 09/19/2014 at 14:06

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This is exactly what I was going to bring up. As I understand it, Toivonen's car had the fuel tanks under the seats, and when they ruptured, they had no chance.

snowplz > Racescort666 09/19/2014 at 14:26

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This is the letter Toivonen read for the driver's statement. Some heavy shit that day

KirkyV > irisfailsafe5000 09/19/2014 at 14:52

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Uh...

Just Cars for Joe Bryant > For Sweden 09/19/2014 at 15:40

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Group B was like the old Can Am racing series of the 60's and 70's, there was little to no restriction on car technology (basically the only real rule was a 200 car homologation minimum). So you had insanely powerful and fast cars (horsepower for some was in the ballpark of 500hp) which you will see in this video spent very little time on the ground even when the ground was flat. Plus you had little to no crowd control, so the fans went anywhere they wanted.

Group B:

WRC on the other hand as we know it today evolved from a proposed replacement for Group S where the cars were limited to 300hp. Although this series was cancelled before it got off the ground, many considered it safer than Group B and more exciting that Group A (1.6L turbo). It was revived by the FIA in 1997, as a replacement for Group A and became World Rally Car. (the World Rally Championship has been around since 1973, and covered all of the Group's).

WRC:

Maxie The Mistress > Racescort666 09/19/2014 at 15:49

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Ohhhh, your screen name includes 666, I'm so impressed and scared.

/not

Maxie The Mistress > Racescort666 09/19/2014 at 15:50

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Ohhhh, your screen name includes 666, I'm so impressed and scared.

/not

Just Cars for Joe Bryant > Racescort666 09/19/2014 at 16:20

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What is interesting is even though they were never raced Group B had a class for cars which would have the following qualifications: 4000 cc displacement if N/A, 2857 cc if turbo or supercharged, plus a minimum weight of 1100 kg. This class was intended for cars like the Porsche 959, and the Ferrari 288 GTO (and the GTO Evoluzione, which would later become the F40). The 288 GTO actually was homologated, but the 959 and the GTO Evo were considered prototypes.

The part I am not clear on though (maybe someone can help me out with this), is that I don't believe that the Ferrari's were intended for the dirt (or the Porsche for that matter, but we know it could handle it, just look up Porsche 959 at Dakar). I see hints around that there was supposed to be a companion track series to go along with the Group B rally stages. But I have found nothing concrete.

JayHova > OPPOsaurus WRX 09/19/2014 at 20:18

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The current Polo WRC has 315hp and weighs 1200 kg....that's a massively worse power-to-weight-ratio than a 205 T16, which had more than 400hp vs. less than a ton.

mrbwa1 > Racescort666 09/19/2014 at 20:25

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indeed the Group B cars were ultralight at the expense of safety. Between the lack of spectator safety and the safety corners cut by manufacturers, the end was inevitable.

Also, modern cars have variably geometry turbos and fancy center dies. Group B cars had large, leggy turbos plus supercharges in some cases and we're not all AWD. Even the AWD vehicles were rudimentary at best. Much more beastly the modern WRC cars.

996C2 > Dusty Ventures 09/19/2014 at 20:58

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The HP figures were confirmed by various teams after Group B ended and they were between 700HP and 800HP depending on which manufacturer we are speaking about and which type of course conditions they were running on a given day. Audi confirmed 770HP on the S1 as did Walter Rohrl. The 205T16 was raced in the Dakar the year after Group B ended and Ari Vatanen mentioned dialing *down* the boost for the loose conditions and longevity to 650HP. It's clear that the cars in the final season were well above their published 'figures' as given out by the manufacturers PR depts. Its clear that the teams whom began competing in 1983 specification in either the 2500cc or 3000cc spec had pretty much doubled their output by the 1986 season. The FIA decided to act due to safety concerns just as the Porsche 959/961 model (4000cc class) with it's rumored 900HP was being tested during 1986 for entry in the 1987 season.

Racescort666 > The-Ever-Socially-Apathetic TBAL 09/19/2014 at 21:34

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There is a much bigger aversion to speed now than there was in the 80s. Plus, the cars were unrestricted and basically a free for all for the manufacturers. As much as I'd love to see an "Anything Goes" class in rally again (or really any motorsport for that matter), I think our culture is too risk adverse to allow this kind of thing again. I'm aware of the few racing series that allow almost anything but I strongly doubt it will happen again in an international or national top tier series again.

LugNutz > Racescort666 09/19/2014 at 21:36

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If I ever hit the lottery you can bet your ass I'd have a Sport Quattro S1 E2 in my garage to go hoon with. I'd enter amateur rallies just to get beat by Civics driven by people who can actually drive.

Dusty Ventures > KingOfRallyAmerica2K14 09/19/2014 at 21:44

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By the way, I figure I ought to introduce myself. Hi, I'm Steve, and I'm a co-driver in the Rally America series :)

DoglegFirst > Racescort666 09/20/2014 at 04:59

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See? The drivers that signed this said this was the spectators fault, not the speed. I feel like there is a misconception to some extent that these cars were killing people left and right (not to say they weren't dangerous, and I feel like the natural progression of power would have led to 1000hp cars on gravel with 80s tires which is a recipe for disaster). There are plenty of videos of spectators getting out of the way of these 600hp cars at the very last second. Crowd control could have saved many lives.

Also, I've heard that Toivenen was both down with the flu and being medicated for it before his crash. Between better scrutineering and modern safety equipment, I think something like Group B might be able to exist.

Nortad > tromoly 09/20/2014 at 05:09

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Toivonen died After, since he was the one who read this letter to the press

tromoly > Nortad 09/20/2014 at 11:06

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...Which is what I said, this letter is from the Portugal rally, which happened a couple events before the Tour de Corse, which is where Toivonen was killed.

Reborn Pyrrhic > For Sweden 09/20/2014 at 20:24

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Group B wasn't exactly killed because the cars were too fast, as much as people repeat that like a mantra. Read the letter above, and you can clearly see that the drivers themselves didn't think it was safe driving with the spectators as close to the cars as they were in Rally Portugal. That was the reason: a reasonable level of crew and spectator safety couldn't be guaranteed, and the drivers decided to stop racing. Group B was killed as an escape goat: blame the death on the speeds instead of on poor stage security, lower the overall speed of the cars to allow for a higher margin of error and reaction times. In modern WRC rally stages nowadays you never see crazy crowds as you did back in the Group B era. Even in Portugal nowadays the FIA and WRC do a much better job at keeping people off the stage path.

Group B in Portugal:

Post-Group B WRC in Portugal:

KingOfRallyAmerica2K14 > Dusty Ventures 09/21/2014 at 11:36

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I am thinking of the GRC cars. Although I was still under the assumption the Rally America cars made more power, I don't know where I got that idea.

KingOfRallyAmerica2K14 > Dusty Ventures 09/21/2014 at 11:36

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Yea, we seem to comment together a lot. Who do you codrive for?

Dusty Ventures > KingOfRallyAmerica2K14 09/21/2014 at 12:35

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I'm a free agent, so I jump around. My mains are Rory/Tracey Gardiner, Justin Carven, Danny Grant, Ryan Wilcox, and Troy Miller when his brother is busy. I'll be sitting with Wilcox at LSPR next month.

KingOfRallyAmerica2K14 > Dusty Ventures 09/21/2014 at 13:31

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Awesome

Dusty Ventures > KingOfRallyAmerica2K14 09/21/2014 at 14:08

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Doesn't suck ;)

Satoshi "Zipang" Katsura > interrogator-chaplain 09/21/2014 at 18:17

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Got a fourth ticket? Looks like I'm joining ya'.

multiple wheels for each day of the week > You had fordboy357 at "meat tornado" 09/22/2014 at 13:39

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if you ever get a chance ... you must see this car run . esp in the EVO tuning version. I have seen atleast 2 of them now year after year on pikes peak

Paulo Bonito > Racescort666 12/03/2014 at 14:55

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Yes I agree it was the fans but if you write an article about the end of Group B I think you should have referred that the definitive end was decided when Henry Toivonen's and his co-pilot died on Tour de Course.

Just saying...

Adam > Racescort666 03/05/2015 at 10:30

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Bring Group B back with modern cars, I mean people miss the ridiculous horsepower. The sounds these current WRC cars sound like weedwackers, if you raise the engine displacement rules so companies like Subaru and Audi can come back with the boxer and 5cyl which sounds godly it would be absolutely delightful, BUT they need to be even safer than the WRC cars in that the role cages need to be stronger the fuel cells and fire suppression systems need to be more advanced. This would be absolutely wonderful though instead of walking up on a rally stage and it sounding like a yard service is going past at 80mph you get all these wonderful noises made a flat four or a 5cyl Audi or maybe a Focus RS Rallye ALL OF THIS WONDERFULNESS but sadly this will never happen as that would cost A LOT OF MONEY and a lot of arguing and regulations

Pheatton > Racescort666 03/05/2015 at 10:48

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I was watching docu on Group B awhile back and they were talking to Walter Röhrl about his days with the Audi team during group B days. He said that when he started out with Audi they had a car producing something around 300HP with a curb weight of around 2600lbs. By the time Group B was done the Quattro was slimmed down to 2400lbs and produced in excess of 600hp...this was in the span of 3-4 years. He said the cars were sometimes terrifyingly fast and he had doubts about how long the rules would stay in place to allow such speeds. It also was a time rife with lax rules on who could drive etc. The crash in 86 wa the result of a driver that was totally unprepared for a Group B car. At least that's the stance the show took.

The show ended talking about what Group B was going to be like the next year if it wasn't canceled. Im not sure which manufacturer was working on this but one had a car prepped for the 87 season with 700+hp in car that weighed under 2000lbs or something crazy like that.

Autofixation > Racescort666 03/05/2015 at 11:08

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So I have a few things I've been pondering.

The drivers knew the dangers of driving the cars and participating in the race, regardless of the spectators. They knew what they were getting into, what their cars were capable of, and potential hazards.

The spectators knew that these cars were extremely fast, were not always guaranteed to stay in control, and were liable to go off course. Yet they still insisted on being ON the course. I have little sympathy for the spectators that didn't exercise caution when spectating and taking reasonable precautions to keep themselves safe. What the spectators did was completely unreasonable. No doubt there were spectators that did attempt to put themselves in what could be considered a safe position to watch and were still somehow injured, but there were a completely disproportionate percentage of spectators that put themselves well within the realm to be injured or killed.

pelicared > Dusty Ventures 03/05/2015 at 17:50

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Didn't AWD took some time to be adopted?? I mean it's not like always Group B was AWD. I thought it was until AUDI introduced Quattro... but say the Lancia S4, Renault 5 Turbo, Lancia 307, the Strattos .. and few others.

Dusty Ventures > pelicared 03/05/2015 at 18:00

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Audi pioneered the resurgence of AWD rally cars with the Quattro, which they launched immediately after they convinced the FIA to remove the ban on AWD cars. It did take a few years for the other manufacturers to come up with AWD cars of their own, and for a while Audi had the playground all to themselves.

speeddemon807 > Racescort666 03/05/2015 at 20:04

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speeddemon807 > For Sweden 03/05/2015 at 20:06

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Group B rally cars had 600+ BHP. On the edge of insanity driving through a narrow road opening with crowds and trees on both sides.

speeddemon807 > For Sweden 03/05/2015 at 20:16

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Stilatoss > Dusty Ventures 03/06/2015 at 07:25

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actually you are wrong group b cars were approaching almost 1000 hp and were only 4 seconds slower than formula 1 cars on an identical but dirt track look at this vid on the 57 min 11 second mark

Stuttgart Shuffle > Dusty Ventures 03/06/2015 at 14:21

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So, what we need is Group B+. Modern suspension and safety equipment, 600 HP and 1800 lbs. And homologation. Let's make it happen. We can crowd fund a few billion right?

Dusty Ventures > Stuttgart Shuffle 03/06/2015 at 18:24

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Homologation actually still exists, and doesn't mean what everyone thinks it means. Homologation by definition simply means "to approve or confirm officially." All the cars and the parts on them (cages, engines, suspension, aero, etc) need to go through a lengthy homologation process with the FIA.

As for the rules, personally I'm actually good with the way the rules are now. Yes, it sucks that we can't get bonkers rally-cars-for-the-road like in the Group B days, but the competition is getting better every year, and that's thanks to the rules. Three years ago there were only two manufacturers, now we're up to four with Toyota joining to be the fifth in 2017 and at least two more makes rumoredly considering joining in. If the rules were changed to require near-identical road car versions, or even just that the road car version must be AWD, virtually every manufacturer would leave.

Stuttgart Shuffle > Dusty Ventures 03/06/2015 at 19:45

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I know what homologation is and I will never read that tome.

Stuttgart Shuffle > Dusty Ventures 03/06/2015 at 20:17

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i still love you, though.

Herr Quattro - Has a 4-Motion > Racescort666 03/20/2015 at 22:00

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I don't understand... How come they didn't end WEC/LeMans after the 55 disaster?

415s30 W123TSXWaggoIIIIIIo ( •_•))°) > Racescort666 12/04/2015 at 23:36

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Yeah, how about not being a total dumb fuck and standing next to where a rally car is going to land or run off!

SantaRita > Racescort666 04/08/2016 at 16:45

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I have driven that course, and in an Alfa Romeo. It’s a great little run.

SantaRita > Racescort666 04/08/2016 at 16:46

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risk averse, but also there is a better business case behind using vehicles closer to production models.

BorkBorkBjork > Dusty Ventures 04/08/2016 at 19:10

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Exactly what I was going to say. Group B vehicles (especially later ones) were stupendously fast in a straight line, but modern tires and suspensions mean that newer rally cars are faster on some courses.

Rev Les Crowley > Herr Quattro - Has a 4-Motion 04/09/2016 at 11:53

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Too much money at stake? Mercedes did quit racing after that accident, and didn’t return for decades.

Racescort666 > Dusty Ventures 04/09/2016 at 14:46

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I’ve been on Jalopnik and related sites since 2013, as well as having been part of the rallying community, and this whole time, until now, have been assuming you were Alex Kihurani. I feel like an idiot. Sorry for the necropost.

Dusty Ventures > Racescort666 04/09/2016 at 17:36

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Haha I'd say being mistaken for Alex is an honor!

essequattro > pelicared 04/09/2016 at 20:35

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For the record, the Delta S4 is AWD, the Stratos competed in Group 4, and the “307" is actually called the 037. There were a couple of other RWD cars developed for Group B including the Opel Manta 400 and a Toyota Celica that didn’t get much recognition as far as I’m aware.

Group B was only around for about a year before Audi entered the Quattro. Even so, it wasn’t really that interesting until AWD was introduced... RWD cars couldn’t handle much over 300hp even without restrictions because they just couldn’t put the power down with two driven wheels. There were a bunch of other RWD Group B concepts but most never made it to actual racing because A) they were RWD and the AWD domination had begun or B) the FIA killed the series before they could enter it.

The-Ever-Socially-Apathetic TBAL > Dusty Ventures 04/11/2016 at 09:24

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Just imagine if modern rally cars weighed the same as Group B, with the same horsepower, utilizing modern aero/tires/suspension/brakes...

We’d be in for a sport of supersonic expectations...

ALittleHusky > Eric Sean Delaney 04/11/2016 at 11:36

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O.O;; LOOK HOW SKINNY THOSE TIRES ARE!!